Little quiz

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » 18 Dec 2003, 16:55

I posted this to rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad, but for those of you who don't read there:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

For your amusement, I've devised a Quiz.

I was going to have everyone send in their best efforts, but due to
the open nature of the medium, I'll just post the questions, and let
you have a crack at them.

I think I have the 'best' answers to the questions, of course, but if
someone figures out something better, more power to you. I've tried to
make sure the questions are not to open-ended.

1. Using any card in the game, and with aid from the rest of the
table,
how many inner circle members could you possibly move from your
uncontrolled region to your controlled region in your first turn? (And
how?)

For all further questions: Using just cards in your own (wierd) deck
(no Succubus club trading or help from other methuselahs):

2. Methuselah A has one minion (Minion A, with several cards on it).
Methuselah B (prey of A) has a tapped Selma, at full capacity, with
one master card on her. Both methuselah's have no further cards, nor
the edge.

- Minion A bleeds for 1 and plays 1 action modifier.
- Selma plays a forced awakening and attempts to block.
- Minion A plays an action modifier giving it +1 stealth.
- Selma, having top-decked a 2nd, plays it as if tapped, so she
untaps and tries to block.
- Minion A plays an action modifier, and the block fails.
- Methuselah B is bled for one.
- Methuselah A ends his turn
- During Methuselah B's untap, no cards are played, no pool or blood
is moved. Selma burns.
- How did this happen?

2. It's been a loooong, loong game.
Your prey has just acted really agressively against your grandprey,
hurting them lots and gaining the edge in the process. Your
grandprey's vision became clouded with red, and he went upstream,
burning all your prey's vampires in one fell swoop (except for one,
which he just sent to torpor). In the process, your prey played his
last card. No more cards in hand. And nothing else on the table.
Your turn comes up. You look over to the left, and you see he's only
got 7 pool left. And the Edge. Problem is: you only have 5 more cards
in hand. And one vampire. And nothing else. Solution: That vampire is
Gloria Giovanni, and you happily bleed with Govern the Unaligned,
Command of the Beast, and Conditioning - for 7.
Nobody plays a card. No-one blocks. But, somehow, your bleed fails.
How?

3. your predator has a Muddled Vampire hunter with a flak jacket.
Muddles sucesfully rushes one of your vampires, who is at 2 blood,
with no equipment or retainers on the vampire. You only have minions
in play (no locations, etc.).
- Muddles makes his regular strike, since the combat is at close
range.
- Your vampire plays only one combat card during this whole combat.
- Your vampire survives the combat. So does muddles.
- Muddles dies immediately after the combat.
- How many (significantly distinct) methods can you devise for this
scenario to be true?
(This one's open ended - I'm searching as well. If I've missed an
obivous angle that allows thousands of solutions - my apologies)

4. There's a Tension in the Ranks on the Table that's seriously been
upsetting everyone. It's down to a 3 player game. You're in your
discard phase, and you've got 1 blood doll in your hand (and no other
masters). You're considering what to discard, in the hope to cycle to
a master card. Suddenly you realise that your deck only contains 12
masters. You've played or discarded 11 of them already. Your prey
offers you 3 pool from a parity shift if you promise to remove the
Tension in your upcoming master phase.
You agree - and you keep your deal. How?

5. The only things you have are 6 plain minions (at full capacity),
besides your hand of 7 cards. Even your library is empty. Your hand
contains only 1 card that enhances bleed - a Conditioning. You're in a
1-on-1 situation with your last enemy. He has nothing in play, and no
cards in hand. What's the maximum amount you could bleed for?

Holger Christiansen · Post by **Holger Christiansen** » 18 Dec 2003, 19:13

OK, I'll try to answer question number two:

Vampire A has the following cards on it:

Camarilla Exemplary
Sabbat Priest
Dominion

and needs the following disciplines: for, DAI, OBT, needs to be at least capacity nine..

The first action modifier played is Neutral Guard at [for], so Selma pays four blood to attempt to block the action (4 Blood left) (One for the Neutral Gurad, and one each for Dominion, Camarilla Exemplary and Sabbat Priest)
Then A plays a Tenebrous Form (superiour) for +1 stealth
Selma plays 2nd Trad and burns 1 blood for the 2nd and one for the Tenebrous Form (2 Blood left)
A plays a Psychomachia at [DAI] so the block fails and Selma takes one damage. Because of the block not being succesfull, Selma burns one blood due to the Forced Awakening she played earlier (0 Blood left)

Now we look at Selma, with her one Master Card on it, a Society of Leopold, which is the cause of her being burned in her controllers untap phase..

Very unlikely setup, but possible

I think the easiest way to get a minion like the one needed is:

Giotto Verducci, two Obtenebration Master Cards on him, Clan Impersonate him to something camarilla, Camarilla Exemplary on him, Into the Fire, Sabbath Priest, Blooding, Dominion..

EDIT: With the statement "plain minions" in Question Number 5, do you mean that they have no disciplines and no cards on them? I guess not because then they would not be able to play the conditioning..

If at least 5 of the 6 minions are Black Hand and all have superior dominate, you can bleed for 24.. you just need 5 The Art of Memories and allways return the Conditioning to your hand

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » 19 Dec 2003, 09:52

Holger Christiansen wrote:OK, I'll try to answer question number two:

Vampire A has the following cards on it:

Camarilla Exemplary
Sabbat Priest
Dominion

and needs the following disciplines: for, DAI, OBT, needs to be at least capacity nine..

The first action modifier played is Neutral Guard at [for], so Selma pays four blood to attempt to block the action (4 Blood left) (One for the Neutral Gurad, and one each for Dominion, Camarilla Exemplary and Sabbat Priest)
Then A plays a Tenebrous Form (superiour) for +1 stealth
Selma plays 2nd Trad and burns 1 blood for the 2nd and one for the Tenebrous Form (2 Blood left)
A plays a Psychomachia at [DAI] so the block fails and Selma takes one damage. Because of the block not being succesfull, Selma burns one blood due to the Forced Awakening she played earlier (0 Blood left)

Now we look at Selma, with her one Master Card on it, a Society of Leopold, which is the cause of her being burned in her controllers untap phase..

Very unlikely setup, but possible

I think the easiest way to get a minion like the one needed is:

Giotto Verducci, two Obtenebration Master Cards on him, Clan Impersonate him to something camarilla, Camarilla Exemplary on him, Into the Fire, Sabbath Priest, Blooding, Dominion..

EDIT: With the statement "plain minions" in Question Number 5, do you mean that they have no disciplines and no cards on them? I guess not because then they would not be able to play the conditioning..

If at least 5 of the 6 minions are Black Hand and all have superior dominate, you can bleed for 24.. you just need 5 The Art of Memories and allways return the Conditioning to your hand

And of course, with Giotto, there's another blood lost, so you could skip the camarilla exemplary.

And multiple copies of camrilla exemplary also works.

But you got the solution. Well done.

The 'plain minions' means any minion in the game, but without cards on them, yes.

Art of Memories is nice, but there's much more evil Spiridonas tricks to be done.

Tobias

Post by **Andreas Nusser** » 19 Dec 2003, 10:00

Tobias wrote:I2. It's been a loooong, loong game.
Your prey has just acted really agressively against your grandprey,
hurting them lots and gaining the edge in the process. Your
grandprey's vision became clouded with red, and he went upstream,
burning all your prey's vampires in one fell swoop (except for one,
which he just sent to torpor). In the process, your prey played his
last card. No more cards in hand. And nothing else on the table.
Your turn comes up. You look over to the left, and you see he's only
got 7 pool left. And the Edge. Problem is: you only have 5 more cards
in hand. And one vampire. And nothing else. Solution: That vampire is
Gloria Giovanni, and you happily bleed with Govern the Unaligned,
Command of the Beast, and Conditioning - for 7.
Nobody plays a card. No-one blocks. But, somehow, your bleed fails.
How?

Tobias you have a lot of spare time for your quizes

The solution is simple. Carlotta has only one blood!

Holger Christiansen · Post by **Holger Christiansen** » 19 Dec 2003, 10:40

Tobias wrote: And of course, with Giotto, there's another blood lost, so you could skip the camarilla exemplary.

And multiple copies of camrilla exemplary also works.

But you got the solution. Well done.

The 'plain minions' means any minion in the game, but without cards on them, yes.

Art of Memories is nice, but there's much more evil Spiridonas tricks to be done.

Tobias

Oh, ok, I missed Giottos Ability.. he was just the one with the best chacne to get the needed disciplines

About Number 5: OK, I, here I also didn't have a look at vampires special Abilities.. After having a look, here is my next guess:

Vampires:

Spiridonas
Miguel Santo Domingo
Banjoko
Selena
Blackhorse Tanner
Henry Lavenant

Hand:

4 The Art of Memory
1 Conditioning
1 Vial of Elder Vitae
1 Freak Drive

Miguel Equips with the Vial, Freak Drive to unturn.
Banjoko bleeds with Art of Memory and Conditioning, Miguel burns a blood to enhance the bleed (for 5), return the COnditioning to your hand
do likewise with Selena, Blackhorse Tanner and Henry Lavenant (bleed for 20 now).
Bleed with Spiridonas, burn all blood on him and one on Miguel, for 9.
Burn the Vial on Miguel to give him Dominate, bleed with him and Conditioning for 3..

Final Bleed Result: 33

Holger Christiansen · Post by **Holger Christiansen** » 19 Dec 2003, 10:45

And here my guess for Number 4:

You need to be very low on pool and have a few Blood Dolls in Game allready..

then, in your next Master Phase, you use all your Blood Dolls to get down to 0 Pool, ousting yourself.. since you control the Tension, it is removed from the game.. along with you

Oh, and Andreas, the Vampire is not Carlotta Giovanni but Gloria Giovanni.. but besides that your answer seems correct

Holger Christiansen · Post by **Holger Christiansen** » 19 Dec 2003, 11:14

OK, now I tried Number one as well:

I can get out 2 Inner Circle Members with my first try:

Player 1:
Play an Info Highway, Influence out any Malkavian

Player 2:
Play Malkavian Dementia, take over the Malkavian of Player 1, Play a Rumors of Gehenna giving Players 3, 4 and 5 (you) two Master Phase Actions.

Player 3:
Play a Succubus Club and a Malkavian Dementia.
Play Disputet Territory to give you the Succubus Club

Player 4:
Play a Tomb of Ramses III and a Powerbase Montreal
Influence a minimum 9-cap Vampire with the Tomb of Ramses, bringing it to 4 counters

Player 5 (You):
Use the Succubus Club to get the Info Highway, the Parthenon, the Tomb of Ramses III and the PB: Montreal.
Tap the Parthenon.
Play 3 Zillahs Valleys (two one one Inner Circle, the other one on the IC with Tomb of Ramses)
Influence:
2 Points on the one with Tomb of Ramses, bringing the Vampire and Tomb to 6 Counters, both, which is enough to bring him out.
The Blood from PB:M and two Influence onto the IC with 8 Blood.
Now you even got 2 Influence left but I couldn't figure out any way to get another 9 Influence so that has to be enough!

Post by **Andreas Nusser** » 19 Dec 2003, 11:21

Holger Christiansen wrote:OK, now I tried Number one as well:

I can get out 2 Inner Circle Members with my first try:

Player 1:
Play an Info Highway, Influence out any Malkavian

Player 2:
Play Malkavian Dementia, take over the Malkavian of Player 1, Play a Rumors of Gehenna giving Players 3, 4 and 5 (you) two Master Phase Actions.

Player 3:
Play a Succubus Club and a Malkavian Dementia.
Play Disputet Territory to give you the Succubus Club

Player 4:
Play a Tomb of Ramses III and a Powerbase Montreal
Influence a minimum 9-cap Vampire with the Tomb of Ramses, bringing it to 4 counters

Player 5 (You):
Use the Succubus Club to get the Info Highway, the Parthenon, the Tomb of Ramses III and the PB: Montreal.
Tap the Parthenon.
Play 3 Zillahs Valleys (two one one Inner Circle, the other one on the IC with Tomb of Ramses)
Influence:
2 Points on the one with Tomb of Ramses, bringing the Vampire and Tomb to 6 Counters, both, which is enough to bring him out.
The Blood from PB:M and two Influence onto the IC with 8 Blood.
Now you even got 2 Influence left but I couldn't figure out any way to get another 9 Influence so that has to be enough!

What about the Hobnor the Elder vote?

Holger Christiansen · Post by **Holger Christiansen** » 19 Dec 2003, 11:53

Andreas Nusser wrote:What about the Hobnor the Elder vote?

I only play this game since 6 months or so, so I don't know every card..

I definitely missed that one..

with this card, you can probably get out all 4 Inner Circle Members in your starting crypt by using Malkavian Dementia and Dramatic Upheavel played by your predator often enough.. all other minions just have to play Honor the Elder every time its there move.. after eleven have been played, no more dramatic upheaval is played, its your turn and all 4 IC Members come out during influence..

the scavenger · Post by **the scavenger** » 19 Dec 2003, 13:02

Holger Christiansen wrote:About Number 5: OK, I, here I also didn't have a look at vampires special Abilities.. After having a look, here is my next guess:

Vampires:

Spiridonas
Miguel Santo Domingo
Banjoko
Selena
Blackhorse Tanner
Henry Lavenant

Hand:

4 The Art of Memory
1 Conditioning
1 Vial of Elder Vitae
1 Freak Drive

Miguel Equips with the Vial, Freak Drive to unturn.
Banjoko bleeds with Art of Memory and Conditioning, Miguel burns a blood to enhance the bleed (for 5), return the COnditioning to your hand
do likewise with Selena, Blackhorse Tanner and Henry Lavenant (bleed for 20 now).
Bleed with Spiridonas, burn all blood on him and one on Miguel, for 9.

That's only 8, Spiridonas burns x+2 blood to gain +x bleed an is 9 cap. So yours is 32. I think I can make 33 like this:

Crypt:
Annabell Triabell
Alexandra
Helena
Arika
Spiridonas
The Great Beast (with DOM FOR NEC)

Library:
Heidelberg
Sargon Fragment
Conditioning
Freak Drive x2
Summon Soul x2

Play Heidelberg
Annabell uses her special for +1 bleed to all Toreador, untaps.
Great Beast bleeds with Conditioning, Freak Drives (Bleed: 6)
Great Beast plays Summon Soul to retrieve Conditioning and Freak Drive, Freak Drives
Alexandra bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Annabell gets Sargon Fragment, Freak Drives
Annabell plays Summon Soul to retrieve Conditioning and Freak Drive
Arika bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Tap Heidelberg to move Fragment to Great Beast
Great Beast uses Fragment to move Conditioning to my hand.
Spiridonas bleeds, burning 8 blood and playing Conditioning (Bleed: 9)
Alexandra untaps Annabell using her special.
Annabell takes the Fragment from The Great Beast, Freak Drives
Annabell uses Fragment to move Conditioning to my hand.
Helena bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)

4 x 6 + 9 = 33

sk.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » 19 Dec 2003, 13:36

Holger Christiansen wrote:
Andreas Nusser wrote:What about the Hobnor the Elder vote?
I only play this game since 6 months or so, so I don't know every card..

I definitely missed that one..

with this card, you can probably get out all 4 Inner Circle Members in your starting crypt by using Malkavian Dementia and Dramatic Upheavel played by your predator often enough.. all other minions just have to play Honor the Elder every time its there move.. after eleven have been played, no more dramatic upheaval is played, its your turn and all 4 IC Members come out during influence..

The answer is all of them.

You are correct on using honor the elders to get out the 4 ICs, but through trading with the succubus club and other methuselah's, there are tons of ways to get all 7 ICs.

(Use malkavian dementia - dramatic upheaval to not get a turn for a while first).

On the Tension in the Ranks one - there's a way without getting ousted and without ANY minion actions other than the Parity shift mentioned in the question.

On the bleed one - my solution also uses the vial, but differently:

spiridonas
Agaitas
Augustus
Arika
Francois Villon
Alexandra

Vial of Elder Vitae
Force Of will
Posession
Reinforcements
Rave
heidelberg
Conditioning

play heidelberg
Arika Bleeds with conditioning (6)
Spiridonas gets a Vial of Elder Vitae
Burn vial for fortitude
Bleed, burning 8 blood, with Force of Will, for 8 bleed
Spiridonas burns
NEC minion 1 Posesses Spiridonas
Villon raves his blood to spiridonas
Alexandra untaps Villon
Villon reinforcements the Force of Will, Vial and conditioning back
Spiridonas gets vial burns vial, Bleeds with force of will, for 8 bleed
Augustus brings back spiridonas with in-built action
tap heidelberg for pool from arika to spiridonas
Spiridonas bleeds for 10 with conditioning
Alexandra bleeds for 3

Total bleed 6 + 8 + 8 + 10 + 3 = 35

But maybe a combination of Miguel and my solution will get even higher - I had considered that, but couldn't figure it out earlier.

You solution doesn't work fully, btw, since Miguel cannot boost spiridonas' bleed.

But:

Spiridonas
Etrius
Stanislava
Henry Lavenant
Unre
Arika

Hand:

1 The Art of Memory
1 Conditioning
vial
force of will
posession
heidelberg
1 reinforcements

Henri Lav bleeds for 4 w. conditioning and art of memory
conditioning returned to hand
Spiridonas gets vial, bleeds with force of will for 8 and burns
unre posesses him
Heidelberg from arika to spiridonas
Spiridonas bleeds for 8
Etrius bleeds for 6 with conditioning
Arika Calls reinforcements - retrieves force of will, conditioning, and vial
Stanislava bleeds for 6 w. conditioning
Arika bleeds for 5 with force of will

4 + 8 + 8 + 6 +6 + 5 = 37

Fun!
T

the scavenger · Post by **the scavenger** » 19 Dec 2003, 13:47

Tobias wrote:<snip a lot of stuff>

Arika bleeds for 5 with force of will

4 + 8 + 8 + 6 +6 + 5 = 37

Fun!
T

Well, the problem you posed said no other bleed enhancer apart from one Conditioning. Force of Will certainly is a bleed enhancer, don't you think?

Apart from that I have fine-tuned my solution (and recognized my error: of course Spiridonas has a base bleed of 1, so in that respect Holger's solution was cool. Miguel doesn't work for him though, as Tobias pointed out). My solution will give you a total of 36 now (forgot that Annabell didn't even bleed in the first draft). So now:

Crypt:
Annabell Triabell
Alexandra
Helena
Arika
Spiridonas
The Great Beast (with DOM FOR NEC)

Library:
Heidelberg
Sargon Fragment
Conditioning
Freak Drive x2
Summon Soul x2

Play Heidelberg
Annabell uses her special for +1 bleed to all Toreador, untaps.
Great Beast bleeds with Conditioning, Freak Drives (Bleed: 6)
Great Beast plays Summon Soul to retrieve Conditioning and Freak Drive, Freak Drives
Alexandra bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Annabell gets Sargon Fragment, Freak Drives
Annabell plays Summon Soul to retrieve Conditioning and Freak Drive
Arika bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Alexandra untaps Annabell.
Annabell uses Fragment to move Conditioning to my hand, Freak Drives
Spiridonas bleeds, burning 8 blood and playing Conditioning (Bleed: 10)
Tap Heidelberg to move Fragment to Great Beast
Great Beast uses Fragment to move Conditioning to my hand.
Helena bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Annabell bleeds (Bleed: 2)

Total: 4 x 6 + 10 +2 = 36

sk.

Holger Christiansen · Post by **Holger Christiansen** » 19 Dec 2003, 14:03

Oh, yes, you are right, Miguel can only use his ability with Sabbat Vampires

I thought about the Sargon Fragment as well for retrieving the Conditioning.. but I thought The Art of Memory was better since I didn't need another Card (Freak Drive) to bleed with all minions..

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » 19 Dec 2003, 14:20

the scavenger wrote:
Tobias wrote:<snip a lot of stuff>

Arika bleeds for 5 with force of will

4 + 8 + 8 + 6 +6 + 5 = 37

Fun!
T
Well, the problem you posed said no other bleed enhancer apart from one Conditioning. Force of Will certainly is a bleed enhancer, don't you think?

Ermmm yeah. Foolish me.

Apart from that I have fine-tuned my solution (and recognized my error: of course Spiridonas has a base bleed of 1, so in that respect Holger's solution was cool. Miguel doesn't work for him though, as Tobias pointed out). My solution will give you a total of 36 now (forgot that Annabell didn't even bleed in the first draft). So now:

Crypt:
Annabell Triabell
Alexandra
Helena
Arika
Spiridonas
The Great Beast (with DOM FOR NEC)

Library:
Heidelberg
Sargon Fragment
Conditioning
Freak Drive x2
Summon Soul x2

Play Heidelberg
Annabell uses her special for +1 bleed to all Toreador, untaps.
Great Beast bleeds with Conditioning, Freak Drives (Bleed: 6)
Great Beast plays Summon Soul to retrieve Conditioning and Freak Drive, Freak Drives
Alexandra bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Annabell gets Sargon Fragment, Freak Drives
Annabell plays Summon Soul to retrieve Conditioning and Freak Drive
Arika bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Alexandra untaps Annabell.
Annabell uses Fragment to move Conditioning to my hand, Freak Drives
Spiridonas bleeds, burning 8 blood and playing Conditioning (Bleed: 10)
Tap Heidelberg to move Fragment to Great Beast
Great Beast uses Fragment to move Conditioning to my hand.
Helena bleeds with Conditioning (Bleed: 6)
Annabell bleeds (Bleed: 2)

Total: 4 x 6 + 10 +2 = 36

sk.

Wouldn't the bleed with Alexandre be for 7? Thus making the total 37?

the scavenger · Post by **the scavenger** » 19 Dec 2003, 14:25

Tobias wrote:Wouldn't the bleed with Alexandre be for 7? Thus making the total 37?

No, unfortunately Alexandra only has inferior Dominate.

sk.

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