Forum der deutschen VTES-Community

Männele wrote:

Andreas Nusser wrote:Format
Eurodraft: Draft from 9 Boosters

Could you please tell us of which expansions these boosters will be?

Which crypt and deck size would 9 boosters lead to?

-Alf

AFAIK 9 boosters set the minimum for cryptcards to nine leaving the minimum for library cards at 40. Correct?

Correct. In your experience, can you win a 5 player table with 40 cards? I don´t think so. So that means sticking sub-optimal and funny cards in the deck, which can be fun, but is certainly different from recursion decks which are quite strong. We also need to keep in mind that while both have draft effects (good) the both expansions are hard to combine, esp when looking at titles and such.

I will think about it a bit.

For quick reference:

Boosters Crypt Library Recursions
12+ 12 40 0
11 11 40 0
10 10 40 0
9 9 40 0
8 8 40 0
7 7 35 1
6 6 30 1
5 5 25 1
4 4 20 2
3 3 15 3
2 2 10 5
1 1 5 11

See also: Section 7.2.2 Recursion of the VEKN tournament rules.

I think this is the European Draft Championchip. And on this main draft event the decks can be a little bit stronger. And because of the 24 less cards you draft, there also had to be some suboptimal but more funny cards in your deck.

Johannes wrote:Correct. In your experience, can you win a 5 player table with 40 cards?

You can... but as Erol said, its your decision.

By the way, I would prefer a 9 booster draft.

decoy wrote:

Johannes wrote:Correct. In your experience, can you win a 5 player table with 40 cards?

You can... but as Erol said, its your decision.

By the way, I would prefer a 9 booster draft.

In case this is going to become a referendum: I prefer recursion

-Alf

Lets crunch some numbers.

An average 9-Booster draft would leave you with 27 Vampires and 72 Library cards, of these 20% are maybe useless (depends on draft skill).

That leaves you with 50-60 cards and 12 Crypt cards. (9 9 40 0)

------------

An average 7-Booster draft would leave you with 21 Vampires and 56 Library cards, of these 20% are maybe useless (depends on draft skill).

That leaves you with 30-40 cards and 7 Crypt cards. And one recursion. (7 7 35 1)

-------------
Adv. of 9-Boosters:
In a bigger booster pool you maybe have the chance to switch once the orientation of you draft-deck. Less luck involved.

Adv. of 7-Booster:
Recursion and smaller Crypt will let you have stronger deck types, but if you draw unlucky boosters, your draft strategy will sucker punch you in the face.

I think less booster prever more skill. And on the European-Championchip i think the most skilled player should win.

Erol wrote:Adv. of 9-Boosters:
In a bigger booster pool you maybe have the chance to switch once the orientation of you draft-deck. Less luck involved.
Adv. of 7-Booster:
Recursion and smaller Crypt will let you have stronger deck types, but if you draw unlucky boosters, your draft strategy will sucker punch you in the face.

There's supposed to be a draft strategy?
I mean, besides "That's a rare, I'll take it!"
Hmm, have to re-think mine I guess.
-Alf

Murat wrote:I think less booster prever more skill.

Wrong. Less booster benefits mostly the lucky one, who happens to find good cards in its initial boosters. If you get a Villein in your booster you effectively get two (in recursion format). Is that more skillful? No, you are just luckier than the others. And if I read your post correct you want the best to win, not the luckiest.

Männele wrote:

Murat wrote:I think less booster prever more skill.

Wrong. Less booster benefits mostly the lucky one, who happens to find good cards in its initial boosters. If you get a Villein in your booster you effectively get two (in recursion format). Is that more skillful? No, you are just luckier than the others. And if I read your post correct you want the best to win, not the luckiest.

Villein is a bad example as it stays on the Vampire. ZONG!!!!

OTOH: Unfocused draft decks often lead to sub-par games which tend to time out.
Or it's just me ... sucking at draft ... maybe.
Recursion allows to focus your deck and actually have a strategy.
Even when you don't initially draw the über-boosters.

-Alf

Erol wrote: Villein is a bad example as it stays on the Vampire. ZONG!!!!

Damn, you're right. But you all got what I mean, aren't you?

alf wrote:OTOH: Unfocused draft decks often lead to sub-par games which tend to time out.
...
Recursion allows to focus your deck and actually have a strategy.
Even when you don't initially draw the über-boosters.

I don't argue in favor of unfocused decks, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, that being a lucky ass doubles in recursion drafts. You have to build focused decks in draft, that's for sure. And you are perfectly able to do that with 9 boosters (which are around 81 library cards, which you cut down to about 40-45). If you are lucky enough to draft 2-4 bounce or bleed-reducing cards (or what is your favored card) you have a strong advantage if you get it once again compared to the chap, who missed those cards.

Some may argue it's people's own fault if they missed them. But often enough it's a matter of luck if you have such cards in your initial booster or not. Luck is already a strong enough factor for draft (compared to constructed games). We don't have to maximize it even more.

(OTOH I have been always lucky in drafts so far. So let's do the recursion thing .)