Madness & the Rose

rushin'Reyda · Post by **rushin'Reyda** » 23 Sep 2003, 00:57

Madness & The Rose

The latest version of a deck that was Finalist twice during spring 2003 major tournaments.

Concept : Vote. Bleed. Let them eat torpor with Coma and Legacy of power. Parity shift people who bloat, no matter who, but give pool to who you see fit. Give intercept to others when needed. Burn Inner circles for fun, and they shut their mouth or will even vote for you

->There are a lot of strong, albeit hidden combos, just find them

The previous version had Kora, Kite included. Then Persia, Evan and Michael Luther did the trick... Now it features the great Maris Steck
-which just happens to look like Carine, a cute female player from Paris.
So i dedicate this deck to her everlasting fantasy of mind.

As usual, a 90 cards deck since i like this number.

==Crypt : 12
3 Quentin King III
3 Fleurdumal
3 Maris Streck
2 Michael Luther
1 Lena Rowe

==Masters : 13
1 Presence
1 redline
1 Giant’s Blood
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Bleeding the Vine
1 Temptation of Greater Power
2 Blood Doll
5 Minion Tap

==Actions : 10
2x Propaganda
3x Legal Manipulations
3x Kindred Spirits
2x .44 Magnum

==Political Actions : 19
6x Parity Shift
5x Kine Resources Contested
2x Ancilla Empowerment
2x Anarchist Uprising
2x Justicar Retribution
2x Dramaatic Upheaval

===Action modifiers : 21
3x Cloak the gathering
3x Mind tricks
3x Confusion
4x Telepathic Vote counting
4x Voter Captivation
2x Forgotten Labyrinth
1x Aire of Elation
1x Perfect Clarity =)

===Reaction : 13
2x Wake with Evening's freshness
4x Second Tradition : Domain
2x Legacy of Power
5x Telepathic Misdirection

===Combat : 11
6x Majesty
3x Coma
1x Amaranth
1x Concealed weapon

===combo : 3
3x deny

Comments Welcome !

Post by **Johannes** » 24 Sep 2003, 00:10

I have built a quite similiar one inspired by your post in the newsgroup. Look under "Noch mehr Demenz" in the category. But in the 4 games I had with I failed to get a gamewin so far. Mine does not have Maris and more Presence I guess, probably like your old versions.

Decebalus · Post by **Decebalus** » 24 Sep 2003, 10:16

I rebuild your deck and played it twice yesterday. I liked it, because it is a bit different. It was nice to have Legacy of Power on my hand and to wait for Karsh, when everybody thought he will kill everything.

I had problems with voting. Joscha played his Lambach-Vote deck and so i couldnt use Luthers special.

The special ability of Maris is very strong, but that she lacks pre hurts in this deck. And that most vampires only have pre hurts too, so maybe a second discipline card would be good.

I took 2 of 4, and 1 of 4 VPs.

rushin'Reyda · Post by **rushin'Reyda** » 24 Sep 2003, 10:55

excellent ! i'm so happy you tried it

@Decebalus : be careful when blocking Karsh, by the way, there is an odd ruling by LSJ (again...) which says that Psyche can be played to counter the effect of legacy of power -Even if the LoP is played before combat begins, like an obedience. And when asked, LSJ says "we don't need clarification, since nobody plays with legacy of power".

You've had a hard time against Lambach / vely vote, and that's quite logical

the only defence you have is 4xTelepathic Vote Counting...

And for the additional master discipline : presence, feel free to remove a Redline, which is here for the fun factor

@Thea : i'll go and have a look at your deck

Milo · Post by **Milo** » 24 Sep 2003, 12:09

rushin'Reyda wrote:
@Decebalus : be careful when blocking Karsh, by the way, there is an odd ruling by LSJ (again...) which says that Psyche can be played to counter the effect of legacy of power -Even if the LoP is played before combat begins, like an obedience. And when asked, LSJ says "we don't need clarification, since nobody plays with legacy of power".

????????????????

Legacy of Power is very strong! I thought about a nasty deck with 10 Legacy of Power, but with this ruling?

Psyche! [cel] Press.
[CEL] Only usable at the end of a combat when both combatants are still ready. Enter combat with the opposing minion. This is a new combat.

?????? Both Combatants go torpor and are not still ready?

Please explain....

rushin'Reyda · Post by **rushin'Reyda** » 24 Sep 2003, 12:49

LSJ says that you can play psyche to restart combat and not go to torpor after Legacy of Power is played.

my argument : "the only cards that can be played by a minion during a combat are combat cards. So when you play LoP, the combat has not yet started. So Psyche cannot be played."

LSJ argument "Nobody plays with LoP so no clarification is needed."

I'll try again to put this on the newsgroup, maybe LSJ will reconsider

Männele · Post by **Männele** » 24 Sep 2003, 14:14

rushin'Reyda wrote:LSJ says that you can play psyche to restart combat and not go to torpor after Legacy of Power is played.

my argument : "the only cards that can be played by a minion during a combat are combat cards. So when you play LoP, the combat has not yet started. So Psyche cannot be played."

LSJ argument "Nobody plays with LoP so no clarification is needed."

I'll try again to put this on the newsgroup, maybe LSJ will reconsider

I think LSJ is right at this one. Because it reads "combat ends" it is clear, there was a combat. So you can use Psyche. Otherwise there should be written "there is no combat and both the acting and blocking minion enter torpor".

Denis · Post by **Denis** » 24 Sep 2003, 14:39

rushin'Reyda wrote: my argument : "the only cards that can be played by a minion during a combat are combat cards. So when you play LoP, the combat has not yet started. So Psyche cannot be played."

im not sure this is a valid argument, since the rulebook also says after this statement : "...during a combat are combat cards. (unless a card states otherwise, of course) "

so in my opinion there is actually already a combat going on, since LoP says : "...Only usable when a vampire you control enters combat" which i think implies that there is a combat going on, unlike Obedience : "...Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat"...

theres also this "...bla bla combat ends" part in LoP which again implies that there is a combat going on, since you cant end something which hasent started yet, can you? and again its unlike other cards, e.g. Obedience : "...combat does not occur" which implies there is no combat [and wont be] at all...

i think since the minions enter combat, there is a combat, so minions are allowed to play combat cards, but, before anything happens [begining of combat], you play LoP which is a reaction card, but states that it should be played when minions enter combat [using the "unless a card states otherwise" hole in the book]. and since there is a combat and it ends due to LoP, you can play combat cards [or other types if they state, you can], which may be played at the end of a combat, which in the end would make a combat ended by a LoP a valid target for a psyche!

btw. did i mention i hate this card [psyche!]?

regards, Denis

Männele · Post by **Männele** » 24 Sep 2003, 14:52

Denis wrote: btw. did i mention i hate this card [psyche!]?

Did I mention that I think Psyche is a cool card and I'm glad it exists?

rushin'Reyda · Post by **rushin'Reyda** » 24 Sep 2003, 15:20

If this is the case, LoP has a bad wording.
the "When entering combat" has only one occurence, which is on LoP.

Then I should suggest LSJ to change this "when entering combat" to "before range is chose on the first round of combat".

Post by **Johannes** » 24 Sep 2003, 15:31

rushin'Reyda wrote:If this is the case, LoP has a bad wording.
the "When entering combat" has only one occurence, which is on LoP.

Then I should suggest LSJ to change this "when entering combat" to "before range is chose on the first round of combat".

But then again it must be a combat card and not a reaction card because only combat cards and out-of-turn masters are playable during combat.

rushin'Reyda · Post by **rushin'Reyda** » 24 Sep 2003, 16:16

so we all agree that something has to be done. But LSJ prefers to errata Purity of the Beast and other stuff. Don't tell me that Purity of the Beast is seen more often that LoP

Post by **Johannes** » 24 Sep 2003, 18:24

rushin'Reyda wrote:so we all agree that something has to be done. But LSJ prefers to errata Purity of the Beast and other stuff. Don't tell me that Purity of the Beast is seen more often that LoP

Sure. There must be an errate. And I think it must be in that way that Psyche does NOT cancel Legay of Power. Legacy of Power is allready expensive : 3 blood, need prince and one of your minions is although torporized. And Psyche! is allready strong enough. Keep the balance !

Probably the wording of Legacy of Power should be :

Requires ready Prince, Justicar, or Inner Circle Member. Only usable when a vampire you control is about to enter combat. A second vampire you control may play this card. Tap the second vampire. Combat does not occur. Both vampires who were about to enter combat go into torpor.

So go ahead and bums rush LSJ, I will become the Hidden Lurker if you do not manage to "torporize" his opinion on this one !

Denis · Post by **Denis** » 25 Sep 2003, 12:42

Thea Bell wrote:
Requires ready Prince, Justicar, or Inner Circle Member. Only usable when a vampire you control is about to enter combat. A second vampire you control may play this card. Tap the second vampire. Combat does not occur. Both vampires who were about to enter combat go into torpor.

jup, that would clear everything i guess. though i still disagree with the 'else it cant be a reaction card' part, since as i see it, you can play more then only combat and out of turn master cards in a combat, as long as the cards state that you can play them during this and that part of a combat. see the part i pastet from the book...